Thomas McIntyre
Senior Member
26
Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2010 :
22:13:22 
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Robert, gooday again. I have not
told a porkie as you say nor do I suffer dementia.
Let me be very clear.
I was admitted on Friday evening the 1st of November to the Police
Hospital in the Melbourne suburb of Richmond, a place I would be in
for quite some time as it turned out.
On Saturday the 2nd November a group of 4 which included Mr Burman,
departed from Mansfield, enroute for our camp site.
(You will recall I earlier included an extract from the Melbourne
Herald newspaper which described this group).
On the evening of the Saturday this group was lodged at the Monk's
property.
It was not until the following day that the group arrived on the
ground at the camp site.
I now include a further extract from the Herald's report.
"A descent of two miles brought us to Monk’s Saw-mills, on the Wombat
Creek. The country here is much like Brandy Creek, but not as heavily
timbered. We stopped at Monk’s all night, and were made extremely
comfortable, though Mrs Monk was by no means pleased with her husband
for promising to accompany us to the scene of the tragedy. Too much
praise cannot be bestowed on Monk,"
and further on in this report:
"Next morning we started early for the Stringy Bark Creek."
Regards,
Thomas. |
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robert mcgarrigle
Advanced Member
Australia
105
Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 :
23:20:29
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Sorry Mac but I am sticking to
my guns about the porkie or is it selective memory? Our leading modern
day researcher and author of the Authentic Illustrated Story Keith
McMenomy states under the 2nd photo on page 90 says "Arthur Burman or
one of his operators visited Stringybark soon after the tragedy. The
police reconstructed the incident with MCINTYRE'S HELP and he maybe
one of the men shown. "If the real McIntyre wasn't there how in the
blazes could he instruct them where to stand. How accurate is the
re-enactment in the photos? I have always believed there is something
wrong for some reason and cannot put my finger on it. We know for a
fact that they fiddled with the re-enactment at Germans Creek by
adding a bullet hole in the tree for extra effect so I believe the
police or cameraman
at SBC fiddled that scene also. I do hope you will soon I.D. yourself.
Are you afraid to give your correct name (if you are a policeman)
because after all it is a Ned Kelly forum and I haven't heard of 1
Victorian Policeman that says anything positive about the man. |
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Thomas McIntyre
Senior Member
26
Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 :
19:37:58
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Robert, If you don't accept my
words so be it.
I simply quote from a report and I can do no more than tell you I was
not there as I explained earlier.
Now, I see you refer to the Authentic Illustrated Story book,
but I just observe that this book was seventeen years later again
issued as the Authentic Illustrated History seventeen years
after the first book.
Page 83 in the first book includes these words "Arthur Burman, or one
of his operators, visited Stringybark soon after the tragedy, probably
with one of the search party. The positions of the Kellys and police
were reconstructed for their benefit"
Note the word "probably"
Now in the 17 years later version at page 90 it is said (as you
quote)that " Photographer Arthur Burman, or one of his operators,
visited stringybark soon after the tragedy. The police reconstructed
the incident with McIntyre's help, and he may be one of the men
shown."
So now it was the police who reconstructed the incident!
And he (meaning me of course) may be one of the men shown!
Well perhaps if more research was done by the author, and I again
refer you to the Herald's report of which I have quoted, I would
suggest to you that the details would again be modified or corrected
IF a third go at publishing the book is ever undertaken.
You have always believed something is wrong. Yes it certainly is. Back
I think in this forum there is much discussed by others(including
myself)about the positions of the three models compared with the
descriptions of the incident (as it is quaintly called)by some. I
again refer you to my detailed diagram, and to my manuscript.
Now turning to matters of choice. Well, Robert when the forum person
who controls this place requires all who register, and are now
registered, to guarantee that only real names are used I will of
course oblige, but as it is this phenomena known as the Internet and
all the accoutriments therein do not insist on the use of real
identities as a mandatory condition.
Well, you also obviously haven't been talking with many Victorian
policemen - both serving and retired. Keep your ears to the ground.
Lets not get to picking nits as another correspondent suggests.
I (still) remain yours truly;
Thomas
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robert mcgarrigle
Advanced Member
Australia
105
Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 :
20:34:07
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I am glad Mac that you have
brought up the Herald report as a matter of fact. In my opinion the
Media on many occasions get it wrong and rarely apologize for their
errors. I have been involved in such an incident with the media and
their poor recording. On the 26th of March 1966 I was involved in a
bank robbery at Kings Cross while working for the ANZ Bank. In those
days in Sydney there were 4 main papers Telegraph, Sun Herald (both
still exsist today) and the afternoon Mirror and Sun (now both extinct
,more the pity) The reporting was totally wrong my age at the time was
19,in the papers my age was said as 19,21,22 and 24 and the amount of
money stolen ranged from 2,000 dollars to 10,000 or there abouts. I was
bashed over the back of the head with a bar of some sort and my
workmate Barry had pepper or some spice was thrown into his eyes. The
media(TV) reported that I was still in hospital in a bad way. In fact I
was at home watching it on tv and having a chuckle about my bad
injuries.
Mac in regards to the police ,well that was another matter. The robbery
was on a Friday and we were interviewed on the Monday for descriptions
of the assailants and so on. I gave a description of the bloke that
clobbered me but did not see that man that attacked Barry. We proceeded
to the lockup at Central for a viewing of suspects to try and ID. The
blokes they showed us were pretty old ,a lot older than the
description
we gave the police except one who was about the right age. I believe
the police present wanted us to identify him, but neither of us could. I
am afraid I guess that is why I am suspicious of some police but also
I do know quite a few good ones. I had a nervous breakdown after this
and it took me a long while to get over it. In those days we had
pistols and had to go training twice a year and at the time of the
robbery I had a browning automatic. Several people and this is a fact
asked me why didn't I use it, I never gave it a thought. I do feel sorry
for those 3 policemen that were killed at SBC and I think it was a
very unfair fight. There were actually 2 duals of 4 versus 2 and on top
of that the gang had the advantage of surprise. I will finish now mac
and say to you that it is rather good to get all that off my
chest. They did catch the driver of the car in our incident but never
caught the 2 that came into the bank.
Thanks again for replying to my opinion, as I know I am not always
right, regards Bob |
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max
Average Member
18
Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 :
22:07:42
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And a pleasant evening to one
and all!
Bill, accusations, false statements, what is next?
It is you that is interpreting the site of the Police murders
incorrectly. How much more of your rubbish must we endure. Your facts
are no facts, but for twisted, altered and made up to suit what you
claim to be the shingle hut site. How do you expect us the public to
give credit to the facts which is so obviously work without credit,
due to many contradictions.
Denheld please remove your skirt and stop pretending to be poorflour.
Bob, I was sad to read of your past although I am glad you have put it
aside and moved on with your life. Now Bob you say it was an unfair
fight between the police and the Kellys, what if the tables were
turned? Would you also be saying this was an unfair fight? Of course
you would not. Unfortunately this how the events unfolded and the
Kellys have inherited all blame. However, no mention or little mention
is mentioned about the disgraceful way the police treated the Kellys.
Is this fair, of course not as this was how it was and such is life.
Bob, your a good man and God speed. |
Edited by - max on 05/08/2010 18:29:28 |
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marcus
Advanced Member
Australia
204
Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 :
22:24:58
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pulls chair a little closer..... |
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robert mcgarrigle
Advanced Member
Australia
105
Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 :
23:07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by max
And a pleasant evening to one and all!
Bill, accusations, false statements, what is next?
It is you that is interpreting the site of the Police murders
incorrectly. How much more of your rubbish must we endure. Your
facts are no facts, but for twisted, altered and made up to suit
what you claim to be the shingle hut site. How do you expect us the
public to give credit to the facts which is so obviously work
without credit, due to many contradictions.
Denheld please remove your skirt and stop pretending to be
poorflour.
Bob, I was sad to read of your past although I am glad you have put
it aside and moved on with your life. Now Bob you say it was an
unfair fight between the police and the Kellys, what if the tables
were turned? Would you also be saying this was an unfair fight? Of
course you would not. Unfortunately this how the events unfolded and
the Kellys have inherited all blame. However, no mention or little
mention is mentioned about the disgraceful way the police treated
the Kellys. Is this fair, of course not as this was how it was and
such is life.
Bob, your a good man and god speed.
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robert mcgarrigle
Advanced Member
Australia
105
Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 :
23:38:25
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Max, I am certainly not in favour
of the police of the time. There were some absolute B's like
Fitzpatrick, Flood, Strachan, Steele, Hall, Ward and many others who all
contributed to trumped up charges. As we have discussed on here many
times the outbreak was caused by the 11 Mile Creek episode and only
those that were there really know what happened. I f you haven't read the
full evidence of MCIntyre (yes I know he was a liar) it is on Joes
Website and is a very good read. I actually have only read it the past
few days. THANKS JOE FOR THOSE ARTICLES. He gives a graphic report of
the whole SBC incident and you can just imagine what those policemen
went through, especially Michael Kennedy.. Yes after reading his
evidence I have come away with a different view of McIntyre in
particular. I have always thought he was a coward leaving Kennedy
behind to his fate. I have now changed my opinion of him just a little
bit. Lonigan and Scanlon had no chance and was it a fair fight no?
These blokes after all were just doing their job and also following
superiors orders. But as you say if the situation was reversed it would
have been the gang who would have been lying dead. |
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bill denheld
Advanced Member
Australia
127
Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 :
20:44:19
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Hello Glenn, I will just recap,
In your posting near the top of page 6 ( 01/08 ) you show three
images.
Pic3 (Burman2) with notations, you note that Hut2 fireplace would be
'way out' of the picture to the left.
Following my 4 step diagram showing Hut2 fireplace would be near the
middle of the Burman photo2, and on 03/08 you acknowledge that I was
correct.
I am pleased we can agree on that.
However, then in the same posting 03/08/2010 you say this -
quote:
"The point I am making is that the fire place locations on your
"scaled" drawing do not match the Burman images. and
" The positions of two hut fire places do not match the Burman
images."
Glenn, I understand as you say my 'scale map' does not completely
fit all the parameters.
Please go to my scale map -
http://ironicon.com.au/twohuts/images/twohutsscalemap2.jpg
br /
I think the discrepancy between my scale map and the Burman photo must
be due to photo distortion.
Let me explain what I think is happening -
Your Picture 3
http://i32.tinypic.com/287p4ep.jpg
You have drawn some red and yellow lines to indicate North South, East
and West.
I think to apply one set of compass bearings to the photo is leading
you astray.
If you look at the image below you will see the proper photo
perspective as in the railway lines.
This strong perspective applies to all photos to some extent depending
on the lens used. A 'wide angle' lens like the one used by Burman
photo 2 is extremely vulnerable to creating distortions.
Notice there are several North South rail lines converging into the
distance yet all are actually parallel on the ground. Meaning, north
applies across the front of the photo not just from one point right to
another left.
My whole SBC scenario is based upon a reasonable set of estimates of
lengths and distances and heights gleaned from the photos and by
comparing all known facts on the ground.
The next picture shows how my Green and Purple photo edges formed the
arrays to establish my scale map . Glenn, you will recall we spent
some hours discussing the log angles to match the views in the Burman
photos. I think we were both quite happy with the model logs
configuration and viewed from above formed a back to front ' y '.
Glenn, I think the answer to these discrepancies lay with my estimated
placement and photo distortion. My scale layout is all to do with
proportions gleaned from two photographs. I accept my result on this
reconstruction scenario is not perfect but things do stack up OK . If
you or anyone else wants to have a go at creating a better scale map
be my guest
Perhaps you should come up with your version and show us all a better
scenario.
But remember all the vital ingredients, A hut site or two, A creek to
the right when facing north and elevated ground on the left. Room for
a tent about 20 yards off. A little hill slope from which you could
overlook the tent.
See my document
http://www.ironicon.com.au/stringybark_ck_the_authentic_location.pdf
Bill
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